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Sunday, Feb 3, 2008

Today, I would like to spend sometime talking about Homeworld 2, a space 3D RTS title from Relic, the famed developer responsible for Warhammer 40K series and Company of Heroes. As the sequel to the groundbreaking game Homeworld, Homeworld 2 initially attracted a considerable amount of hype when it was announced. However, the game didn't sell too many copies. As the result, Homeworld universe fell into obscurity and Relic went on for bigger and better things.

Being a big fan of the franchise, I felt sorry for Relic. Oh, and just to prove how big a Homeworld fan I am, here is a belt buckle I made based on Homeworld 2's logo. It was even mentioned on relicnews:

I believe that the failure of Homeworld 2 could have been the result of several misguided design decisions:

1 - Formations.

In Homeworld, players were able to organize ships into formations, such as broad, claw, wall, or sphere formations. This feature was removed from Homeworld 2. In a developer interview, it was explained that formation added no real bonus during attack runs so the feature was left out. Instead, ships in Homeworld 2 automatically align into certain type of "ideal battle formation" when combined with other ship types. Theoretically, this would reduce micromanagement and therefore lower players' stress level, but it also reduces player's choice of tactics since all ship behave similarly during combat. Also, Formation from original Homeworld serve other useful purposes, such as fleet organizations. Without formation feature, Homeworld 2 become a game of number, in which players simply build ships and move them to the enemy bases, then watch the battle unfold with very little control from the player's end.

2 - Shipyards.

The idea sounded cool on paper: a battlecruiser so massive that not even Mothership could construct, and a separate shipyard must be built for it. In practice, however, this made very little sense and added no fun to the gameplay. Judging by a shipyard's size and capability demonstrated in-game, a shipyard is more powerful than Mothership in every way. This made Mothership obsolete, and reduced the dramatic effect of having Mothership serving as the most important ship of the fleet and its symbolic status as the last hope of your race was lessened. Also, shipyard's AI was truly screwed up. If you have ever built more than one shipyard, you will know that they get stuck into each other a lot when trying to align themselves with Mothership.

3 - Strike Craft with Unlimited Fuel.

This idea was actually not invented by Relic, but by Barking Dog Studio, which produced Homeworld: Cataclysm. Strike Craft (such as fighters and corvettes) used to have a fuel limit in the original Homeworld, and they must be refueled after certain amount of time in service. Considering strike crafts were designed for maximum maneuverability in mind, they were excellent against capital ships. Removing the fuel limit on strike crafts means that players could send them across the entire map and attack enemy's base directly, which removed a lot of tactical depth from the game.

4 - Recycled Elements.

Video game sequels are naturally based on their predecessor, but Homeworld 2 featured many things that any veteran players could tell that they were the same thing with a different name and appearance. Examples: the crew transport escort mission was a direct copy from a level in Cataclysm; the Dreadnought was a direct copy of the Siege Cannon from Cataclysm; Movers/Keepers were identical to the swarming little buggers from the Kadesh mission in the original Homeworld... just to name a few. In short, Homeworld 2 didn't do much to keep the game fresh.

5 - Broken Level Designs.

The original Homeworld was criticized for its linear progression and its trial-and-error approach to solve a mission. Players usually need advanced knowledge of the level, build the right ships, then replay the next mission and hope that the fleet is properly prepared this time. In Homeworld 2, the problem remained, and in fact was even compounded since missions were automatically advanced as soon as all objectives were achieved. Homeworld 2 won't even give time for the players to reorganize and rebuild the fleet before rushing the player into the next big thing. Also, the game scaled the enemy fleet size according to the player's fleet size, which means players were actually punished for maintaining a large fleet through superior tactics; if you lose few units in a mission, you could expect the next level to be hell.

Overall, these are the weaknesses I felt while playing through Homeworld 2. The franchise featured a great storyline as its backbone, and I was attracted to its universe for the longest time.

Homeworld 2 felt like a rushed product, and it was a shame that Relic and Sierra did not treat this title with enough respect. If the game used another 6 months and ironed out all its wrinkles, the game could have done much better and we might even hear about Homeworld 3.

Finally, some suggestions from me to improve Homeworld 2, if Relic ever decides to remake the game one day:

1 - Include the Death Star and Darth Vader. Getting sued by George Lucas will give you a lot of publicity in no time.

2 - Bundle each copy of the game with a free color inkjet printer. Now the fans can print out paper model layouts and make their favorite Homeworld ships.

3 - Offer a $50 rebate. People love rebates.

4 - Make a "You can win a date with Karen Sjet" contest. People who bought the game can mail the game boxed to Relic, and a lottery will take place. The winner will have his house run over by a bulldozer and know how the Hiigaran felt when their homeworld was decimated.

Category: Editorial
Posted by yian, 2:18am
51 Comments | Post a Comment

Comments

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Excellent observations
and BEST Suggestions!

its sad how a very nice Series can go bye bye with such ease.
Posted Feb 3, 2008 3:37 am PT
Hmmm , now i loved homeworld 2 .. but i think HM2's failure is due to public apathy towards unknown games rather than little changes to the tactical processes of the game .. after all the mettacritic score for homeworld 2 is 8.3 which can hardly be viewed as poor! I take everything that your saying .. but i've got to say i liked the idea of the shipyards and have to admit i've not come across any problems with their navigation. the formations is something i didn't miss , and to be honest completely forgot was missing!
The unlimited fuel ... again i completely forgot about from the first game ..but your right it does mean that you don't really need a carrier anymore except for repairs.

Re-cycled levels ... well there is only so much you can do so i really don't see that as a problem.

Then finally Broken level design ... well , i've got to admit your right that without the space to collect resources and design your fleet at the end of a level hinders you .. but i took that as a purposeful design descision .. i thought it kinda cool considering your on the run and against time you wouldn't have an extra 30 minutes to redesign your fleet before hyperspacing out ... one man's meat is another man's poison.!!
Posted Feb 3, 2008 3:45 am PT
i actually rushed out to buy this on release lol
Posted Feb 3, 2008 4:16 am PT
haha yeah i totally bought this... and proceeded to be completely disappointed. nice observations especially the unlimited fuel for corvettes... i had forgotten about that.
Posted Feb 3, 2008 4:24 am PT
i really liked HW2 and i dont consider it a failure per se, i think it was a failure due to the generally uknowingness of the public of its release, i believe there was one trailer and thats it.

the thing about the less complexity (unlimited fuel, lack of formations) is so that it would attract more people to the series, problem is, they kept some of the complexity in there for us harcore homeworld fans, meaning that we had to deal with the dumbed down bits, and people who just picked it up and played it had to deal with the complex stuff (the resource management, that is unlike most other modern RTS's)

but the amount of moddability is one thing that should of been advertised, the HW2 engine is capable of so much more than what was ingame, collisions are in there, but its turned off, PDS is nearly non existent but can be added to almost all ships (including fighters)

god now i feel like im advertising for mods

o and btw its good to see YOU'RE WINNER
Posted Feb 3, 2008 5:36 am PT
good post, i personally would prefer to play homeworld 1 over 2 because of some of the points you made, especially the formation loss, fighter infinate fuel and generally bacause i thought the story was a lot more epic (your planet has been murdered and so you're going to take theirs back). To be honest i enjoyed all three homeworld games (cataclysm the least but i enjoyed it for a bit), and pretty much every month of my life say to one of my mates 'man i hope they make a homeworld 3', cos it would be awesome if they got the strategy right and just stuck some wicked sick visuals in there (or bumped unit count to zillions ooooh), homeworld 3 and mechwarrior 5 need to be done, and properly
Posted Feb 3, 2008 6:17 am PT
Nice post Yian. I actually started with Homeworld 2. Then I heard the first one was better, and I bought it for only $10. Unfortunately, it has sat upon a shelf for a long time. I need to break that thing out.
Posted Feb 3, 2008 7:19 am PT
Yeah, I also thought that Homeworld 2 was probably a very unique and awesome RTS in itself. I hope they bring it back.

And yeah, I sure as hell hope they bring Mechwarrior back. Tactical mech combat FTW.
Posted Feb 3, 2008 8:36 am PT
That belt buckle strongly resembles a part of the female anatomy.
Posted Feb 3, 2008 8:42 am PT
I was diappointed too in that Game. I tought it would be an improved Masters Of Orion
Posted Feb 3, 2008 10:07 am PT
i love the Homeworld franchise, but i always hated the mission styles and plot that usually leads to smaller scale missions or "hide behind the nebula"-style missions. These types of missions are a redundant feature with all Relic RTS games. Another mission style i hate is "find the alien special unit, research it and use it against your enemy".

where are the big giant fleets of ORGANIZED formations of bombers, corvettes, frigates, destroyers and battlecruisers in epic battles, with ship shattering ion blasts to torpedo frigates firing off salvos of torpedoes off the side.

Unit caps have always been my enemy, and Relic is an expert with unit caps. Here's hoping homeworld3 will actually involve, you know.. massive battles. Until then, Im enjoying the beta for sins of a solar empire and will probably enjoy the release version as well.
Posted Feb 3, 2008 10:36 am PT
Great post man, you nailed all of the reasons that Homeworld 2 sucked. And offered some hilarious suggestions at the end!

I myself absolutely detested Homeworld 2- nothing more than a lame cash-in by Relic as far as I'm concerned.
Posted Feb 3, 2008 12:10 pm PT
I enjoyed HW2 actually, although admittedly even I (a major HW fan) didn't quite get the same feel of awesomeness as from HW1 though.

But Makaan's voice is one of the coolest game villain voices EVER, although Sarevok and Irenicus both come close

On a side note, HW2 was also considerably less challenging than HW1 for me. Had to repeat a mission once or twice, but I never had too much trouble. I also agree on WarxSnake's assessment of the style of gameplay ( I love HW/HW2 for the story,characters, atmosphere, etc as well as the premise. Actual gameplay, besides the fact that it's 3d and in space, isn't as great for me.)
Posted Feb 3, 2008 12:56 pm PT
Check out warlords!

http://warlords.swrebellion.com/wp/
Posted Feb 3, 2008 1:50 pm PT
I love the idea of Homeworld 2, the only thing is, I suck at video games for as much as I love to play them. Homeworld 2 is a game that I would love to be able to play, I even own it, but the game has one of the largest learning curves to any game I have ever played, the depth of what can be done and has to be done just to be able to win against the computer, let alone other human players is just too much for many people to take. As such the game could not appeal to vast numbers of people and would be a critic's darling and a gamer's game. I think the solution to this game would be to have a somewhat less aggressive AI at the beginning and ratchet it up later on, and also introduce certain elements slower. I've always been a sci-fi fan so I would love to be able to imagine that I'm in a giant battle trying to destroy the Death Star or a Borg Cube, but I can't get past the first few levels and the skirmishes take forever to win, with too much going on at one time, it's learning curve is even greater than that of the campaign. I'll admit that I'm a noob at gaming, but the fact that we demand complexity in our game, and more complexity over time, means that as time goes on, it's harder for the industry to attract new gamers. Without new gamers coming in, the profits from making (increasingly expensive) games goes down and it's no longer worth it to spend a few million on a game that experienced gamers are going to love but isn't going to be accessible to new gamers. Complexity and accessibility are not mutually exclusive, it's just harder to integrate them together.
Posted Feb 3, 2008 9:30 pm PT
A lot of good games end up as flops (if I'm not mistaken, so was the original Homeworld). Great reviews and hype don't guarantee a hit. The cool factor(graphics, controls,feedback and sound) and fan base guarantee a hit. Take for example the Disciples series. The original was an intresting take on the Turn-Base-Strategy taking cues from japanese console TBS. Yet, Disciples II did almost nothing new and sold like hot pancakes. It just looked and felt better. Not even 3d graphics in an age where 3D sells. It spawned 3 expansion packs! 3 expansion packs that sucks hard. But it is a cool game, reminds us of the fact that nobody, before then, has ever associated 'Turn-Base' with the word 'cool'. From my own experience, I was how the game look. The original Homeworld looked like a bunch of boxes with excessive light trails. The combat looked as exciting as a bunch of Trekies commentating a space battle. Even worse, my best friend gave me his copy after playing it for an hour. Then I realised it was one of the best game I ever played. But I could never convince anyone that fact. Not even my best friend. People always play for 20 minutes and decide right there 'This game sucks!'
Posted Feb 3, 2008 11:29 pm PT
This is very good introduction to this game. Congratulations.
Posted Feb 4, 2008 4:30 am PT
Could someone please define 'flop' for me. Thanks ever so much.

Can't see how it was a flop myself - sure they changed it some and not necessarily for the better but it's still a great game and pretty much unlike anything anyone else has done.

Funnily enough I checked on the interweb the other day and was disappointed to see the convincing reason as to why there is probably never going to be an HW3.
Posted Feb 4, 2008 6:17 am PT
Picked HW2 up for a buck. Best $1 ever spent probably.
Posted Feb 4, 2008 7:37 am PT
Mmmm, I liked HW2; but yes, it could have been way better. In gameplay terms i think it was fine, loved the extreme difficulty when you had a huge fleet. Now, in story and background terms, a very epic story was planned for that game, but because the pressure VU put on Relic, it was kinda chopped, ripped, slashed, and abused. The game ended with a beautiful story, and not the oh-my-god-no-game-has-ever-had-such-an-epic-story Relic had planned.
Posted Feb 4, 2008 8:34 pm PT
I feel your pain. RTS games are quite easily to develop yet people have monumental shortcomings when they develop them. As a developer, I'd spend extra time on a sequel cause that's more of a reputation you have to live up to. Sometimes, sequels are a way for people to bump up an old title and see if the marketplace is more receptive to it the second time around. Sadly, it's what quite a few mainstream developers do. I'm an indie developer. When I make crap, it's cause I'm too broke to finance a seksier project. =oP
Posted Feb 4, 2008 9:20 pm PT
BTW, the Engrish in this thread is quite entertaining. It's okay.. It makes for an interesting read, folks! Hey, so long as the message comes across, the rest is gravy, right?? =oD
Posted Feb 4, 2008 9:22 pm PT
I'm also a big fan of Homeworld and I always wondered why H2 failed. While you do bring up some good points like how having strike craft have unlimited fuel messed game balance I think it was more then just the game that made it tank.

More specifically, Homeworld 2 was released when the era of space sims were done. ( weep ) . The glory days of Freespace and Wing Commander had long since passed and people werent into space odysseys anymore.
You also bring up a great point about the Modable engine. Thats one of the biggest appeals to me for Relic games. I havent checked the seen recently, but if I remember correctly there was a great Star Wars Mod called SW Warlords, as well as a Battlefleet Gothic ( Warhammer 40K) mod out there...

Unfortunately, the chance for a H3 is pretty much impossible. I had heard Relic was interested in doing one but since its owned by THQ and Sierra owns the homeworld license it probably wont happen...
Posted Feb 5, 2008 3:38 am PT
Well, HW3 is still unlikely, but Sierra doesn't own the rights

Link 1
Link 2
link 3
Posted Feb 5, 2008 6:21 am PT
The ss on that third link really shows the game up for how good it was - I might have to reinstall HW2 and some of the mods out there I had a favourite that required you to win battles to earn points to build more ships but it through the ship cap out the window - ahhh good times.

P
Posted Feb 5, 2008 9:49 am PT
Good read, although I haven't actually played HW2.
You should do this for other flops
Posted Feb 6, 2008 5:49 am PT
There aren't much people that like space strategy games, most of them like stupid games, such as wii fit, brain train and cooking mama.
I'm a big fan btw.
Posted Feb 6, 2008 6:52 am PT
i remember wasting about three hours making hundreds of scouts and then making em all scuttle and crash into the enemy mothership, it was beautiful and made my computer slow down, wicked sick times with HW
Posted Feb 6, 2008 12:27 pm PT
also Homeworld reminds me of some of the best days in PC gaming, Half-Life and the original Aliens Vs Predator, playing Allegiance online, smokin MadCats in Mechwarrior 3, spending hours driving the wrong way down a motorway in Midtown Madness using nosecam, and moaning about 'Fed Rats' on Starfleet Command 2 - now those were the days
Posted Feb 6, 2008 12:31 pm PT
i enjoyed Homeworld 2. It wasn't the greatest game, and I especially enjoyed the space aspect of it.

I guess I'll just buy Sins of a Solar Empire and find a new space game to love.
Posted Feb 6, 2008 9:19 pm PT
I agree totally with your remarks. for me the rushed pace, and not getting the time to re organise the fleet sucked bigtime.

I loved HW1 where you could spend an hour after a mission, just getting resources, building and doing research, and only then take the big jump to the next challenge.
Posted Feb 7, 2008 5:47 am PT
Grats on the Front Page Soapbox, yian.
Posted Feb 7, 2008 4:41 pm PT
beanofengland i totally agree with you. The space age of games is gone (and i regret it every single day). i'm still hoping for HW3... but till then, i'll try my chances with sins of a solar empire. Btw... does anyone know of any other games of this type ? (other than HW series/ Nexus -jupiter incident/ O.R.B./ Hegemonia) i played these all
Posted Feb 8, 2008 2:20 am PT
I own a copy Homeworld 2.. When I get to the sixth level or something like that, the game just crashes.. The patch doesnt fix this either.
Posted Feb 8, 2008 3:53 am PT
I never played Homeworld, and as for Homeworld 2, i think i got the the movers mission with a fleet full of ion frigates and could never win it. when i came back to it after a few months ago and a PC that could run it on max settings and seemed to breeze through it. the last mission (spoilers) was pretty incredible, fighting in orbit around higaraa(sp), it was a pity about the supership making your whole fleet pointless, but more missions like that would have been incredible.

I think that real time space stratagy games are incredibly hard to make feel 'authentic', as the experience is so far removed from anything we can draw on in real life. what we get is a mash of naval stratagy and dogfight action. i think the closest any franchise has got to depicting spaceship combat is battlefleet gothic from gamesworkshop. I never played this tabletop game much, but the stories feel just right. also, has anyone played the beta for Angels Fall First? its very good, or will be when its finished (its a mod for homeworld 2)
Posted Feb 8, 2008 9:23 am PT
wow, your review of HW2 led to a great discussion -- but gamespot gives it an 8.7 is that a flop?!
Posted Feb 8, 2008 10:51 am PT
I would have to agree also. HW2 in my opinion was more like a dumbed down version made to appeal mainstream audiences; Even that didn't sell! However, with emergent ideas coming out today, a HW3 would seem plausible (as unlikely as it it). Go THQ!
Posted Feb 8, 2008 8:31 pm PT
Auto, for a game that manages to capture the "feel" of space combat surprisingly well (especially considering that it was a commercial flop) is Nexus: The Jupiter Incident. It was an impulse buy and one of the best that I've ever made
Posted Feb 9, 2008 5:02 am PT
Thanks for everyone's comments. I think many of us here were huge fans of the original Homeworld, and what Homeworld 2 really did wrong was perhaps not building onto the strength of the original, while failed to polish the new features. The game might still be fun to play and an 8.7 score is fair, but it failed to capture the old fans' enthusiasm or new gamers' interest. Also, space opera RTS usually have a good amount of learning curve, therefore it is hard to spark interest among casual gamers, which are the majority.
Posted Feb 9, 2008 11:38 am PT
Hilarious suggestions. I too agree that H2 was somewhat of a dissappointment (even though it was a heck of a lot more pretty).

But I perchance downloaded a total conversion mod for it called "Point Defense Systems" which ended up turning it into one of my top twenty most memorable PC campaigns ever. If you still have a copy, finding this mod makes it worth dusting off...
Posted Feb 9, 2008 2:02 pm PT
I think the reason Homeworld 2 flopped is because the original Homeworld was a niche space war-game and when people realized that after buying the first one, they stayed clear of the second one. I bought the original Homeworld as a result of reviews on this website and I found it to be a complete waste of my money. I figured if someone proclaimed it as the game of the year it must be a fairly good mainstream type game, but my experience with it was otherwise. I got maybe 8 hours total out of it over a few play sessions before I uninstalled it and threw it into the trash can as one of the most boring war games I've ever played.

It is hard to visualize and control the space combat in Homeworld games due to its 3D nature. There is too much effort spent in manipulating the camera. Though it was nice to actually watch a large space battle take place, the result in practice was that the game became slow when there were many units flying around. The units were small and not particularly impressive to look at. I also recall resource and ship collection being an annoyance since each mission depended on your army carried over from the last, so you would be compelled to spend longer than necessary in a mission to extract every last resource or capture enemy ships instead of destroying them. I must have completely missed the fun part of Homeworld because I found the game to be dreadful. After buying the first one there's no way I'll ever buy another one.

I much preferred other games that simplified space combat into two dimensions like the Galactic Civilizations or Master of Orion series to Homeworld. This may not be as realistic, but it makes control and visualization much more pleasant and lets you focus more on strategy.
Posted Feb 9, 2008 3:43 pm PT
well yea i felt HW2 was a bit of a flop...even the reviewers thought so
HW: 93 meta score
HW:C: 89 meta score
HW2: 83 meta score
Posted Feb 10, 2008 8:07 am PT
"considering your on the run and against time you wouldn't have an extra 30 minutes to redesign your fleet before hyperspacing out ... "
You were on the run in both Homeworld and Cataclysm and in Cataclysm you were certainly against time. Had Somtaaw delayed too long the entire galaxy would have been conusmed, followed by them.
Posted Feb 10, 2008 8:28 am PT
I agree with your obrservations. Homeworld 2 was a good game with many flaws. With that being said what do you think about Sins of a Solar Empire
Posted Feb 10, 2008 3:42 pm PT
I haven't had a chance to play that game yet. There are a few space 3D RTS I have yet to try, and I think I will get Genesis Rising next if I want to go back to this genre.
Posted Feb 10, 2008 4:13 pm PT
Great editorial and loved how you pointed out everything I felt. I was a major fan myself of the series and still got the orignal boxes for homeworld and cataclysm. Though I never did have the chance to buy homeworld 2 since I didn't have a compy that could play it and when I did it was taken off shelves. So he only way I got to play it 5 years later was unfortunately through piracy which I despise but after playing through it I was utterly disappointed with 70% of the game. So makes me wonder if I should buy it if I ever find a used copy or pretend it doesn't exist :/ Would be great if they brought the homeworld universe back to life.

And great jokes at the end #4 wins the hardest though xD
Posted Feb 10, 2008 11:27 pm PT
How can you say that its bad that the game automatically adjusts the enemy fleet size depending on your fleet size. If they didnt have that then the game would be too easy as you built a huge over powering fleet. Also wasnt just announced that THQ just got the Homeworld franchise off Sierra and so isnt there a possibility that there will be a Homeworld 4
Posted Feb 11, 2008 7:16 am PT
Well,interesting suggestions...I don't think Homeworld 2 had so many flaws that u mention above.For me it was (and it still is,despite SOASE) the best Space RTS ever made,the only thing that I'm missing is a 3rd playable race and that's it.I think the game put standards in Space RTS that SOASE and any other Space RTS didn't live to it,even though some of ex-homeworld people was working on it....
Maybe if I'm lucky Sierra will sell the rights for homeworld to THQ,or continue the series on their own...
Posted Feb 12, 2008 12:24 am PT
I loved Homeworld, and your right, Homeworld 2 was not nearly as good. I have high hopes for Sins of a Solar Empire. Ground based RTS' are great and all but battles in a 3D enviroment is the way to play!
Posted Feb 13, 2008 1:08 pm PT
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