I agree wholeheartedly about a lot of comments you made. Particularly about how contrived the BN sex tape was only for the purpose of settling the score. And it wasn't even done in a classy way. The table completely turned after that revelation and it just became blatantly obvious what the true purpose of the sex tape was for. And that's coming from a Brathan shipper.

One thing I think you really should've mentioned was how BL actually had development. I got in a big debate about this in another forum before. I kept saying how BL is better because they had great development. Their entire relationship wasn't built on "I'll be seeing ya." Lucas didn't seem very fond of Brooke at first but after he got to know her he found out that she was really sweet and really vulnerable. And that was just season 1.

In season 2, they were right back from the beginning. They agreed to be civilized with each other but we got to see how Brooke was still aching over the cheating(like, when she looked at his picture in 2x06) and in 2x09 they decided that they actually want to "be" friends. And don't even get me started on everything they did for each other. Lucas fixed her car for free and helped her stay in Tree Hill after her parents moved. She put in most of the money for Nathan's accident and she helped put together those shredded pieces of paper. One of my favorite Brucas scenes is when he says, "I don't know what I'd do without you." because it actually comes from development.

Leyton, on the other hand, were just friends from the beginning. We never got to see the subtly in their development. We didn't get to see Peyton hesitate to take Lucas's hand at the beach. We didn't get to see the moment they decided to "be" friends. It was just there from the beginning and that never felt real to me. LP is a fairytale in every form of the word.

Oh, and I loved how you mentioned Summer's little crush on Ryan in the first few episodes... ahhh, I miss those days.

Thanks for commenting, TireFears. I totally agree with what you said about the BN sex tape first off (settling score, contrived, not classy...definetely words I wouldve used lol) Second off, I DO totally agree with the development issue but I just tried to stay clear from "this ones better than this one because _" type things because you know how that can get- I just wanted to mainly point out the whole Brooke stealing Lucas aspect. But like I said, I do agree which is why I like Brucas more lol. And yeah I miss those days too lol- thanks!

I agree with you completely. There was one very early episode (108? somewhere around there) where there was a party and Peyton makes such a mean comment to Brooke, something along the lines of, "Stop trying to steal him because he doesn't like you!"






Now, I do not have much experience with two beautiful women competing over me (or even one) but my understanding is that anybody is fair game until he or she starts dating, and then it is frowned upon to go after them after they are or were with one of your friends, which Peyton clearly did. Brooke only pursued Lucas because Peyton said she was not into him.

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thefanof, stellarchick did mention 107 in her post, just not that quote. And I don't think Peyton said those exact words(though, it was implied). If memory serves me right, she said, "Are you trying to get me out of the way so you can embarrass yourself?"

And about the whole "fair game" thing you mentioned, the sad thing is that Brooke have Peyton a chance. It was in 106, I think, where Brooke tells Peyton that she's giving her a week to get with Lucas but if she doesn't then he's fair game.

Agreed completely with everything. The thing about Peyton is that she's always too afraid to say what she thinks. Brooke asked Peyton many times if she liked Lucas and if Peyton didn't tell her the truth, then it's her own fault. And Peyton was with Nathan, so like you said, Lucas was fair game. If Peyton wanted Lucas that badly, she should have just broken up with Nathan and gone after Lucas, instead of hiding her feelings and pretending everything was OK. After Brooke and Lucas were dating, Peyton knew how much Brooke loved him, but she kissed him anyway. That's why I never liked the Brooke/Peyton friendship. Peyton went after Lucas TWICE and Brooke forgave her anyway. Peyton stole Lucas from Brooke, definitely not the other way around. Whoever said that was obviously trying to make excuses for Leyton taking so long to get together.

Yes, I said that in a post somewhere on the OTH boards. Some Leyton fans see Leyton as like the holy grail! Only the diluted ones, of course. Leyton clearly came out of lies and cheating. I mean, yeah, Lucas had feelings for Peyton long before he met Brooke but, he met Brooke and told her numerous times he wanted to be with her and NOT Peyton. Then, the kissing began and the almost-hookup. Like, you stated above, Brooke gave Peyton plenty of time to tell Lucas how she felt and be upfront on her feelings but she kept quiet. So, as I see it, Peyton was too late trying to be with Luke because Brooke had already clearly fallen in love with him. And Peyton said in a S6 episode something like, "Are you kidding?! I'm marrying your ex-boyfriend. Girl code is broken", or something like that.

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Fair enough. I agree with many of your points.

The only time I felt that Brooke did something wrong was LIAGH because she was messing with people to get what she wanted. She knew that Lucas liked Peyton and she wasn't sure what Peyton's feelings were so she decided to break off whatever potential NH had and to push Nathan back together with Peyton. I am assuming since they were best friends Peyton would have discussed her relationship with Nathan to Brooke and Brooke should have been happy to see them apart rather than to push them back into a relationship which clearly was not working anymore. Nathan lied to Peyton and took her for granted. However Brooke realized her drunken mistakes and made up for it to NH and Peyton and her were alright afterwards. I think Peyton and Lucas' feelings would have come out eventually even without the push from Brooke because of the flirting and trust that was slowly developing.

I never thought Brooke stole Lucas. Peyton kept her walls up and backed away from him leaving it clear for Brooke to approach him if she wanted. It was Lucas who approached Brooke after being rejected by Peyton and seeing there was more to Brooke than he thought.

Lucas and Peyton betrayed Brooke. It was done in a moment of extreme emotion but that is no excuse just like Brooke being drunk isn't. The fact that they continued made it worse. At least they planned to tell Brooke the truth. They didn't do it to hurt Brooke but it hurts all the same.

The whole tragedy of the first season is that it could have been avoided. If Peyton hadn't kept her walls up she could have admitted the truth to herself that she liked Lucas but after everything that had happened in her life she found it so hard to put down her shields. Lucas shouldn't have gone after Brooke until he was completely over Peyton, even if he thought nothing would happen between them. I don't really know if Brooke could have done anything different except for her actions in LIAGH. If she truly believed Peyton didn't have feelings for Lucas it was fine for her to pursue Lucas if she wanted to. But Mark needed to give us some drama and not resolve anything in the first season.

The sex tape. First of all let me clarify that to me it was a betrayal. It was a one night thing only for sex and Brooke knew that Nathan and Peyton were in a momentary spat and the next the day they would be back together. Nathan and Brooke kept it from her and would have continued to if it had not ever been seen. Drunkenness doesn't excuse his or her actions.

It was a way to put Brooke and Peyton on equal ground. A way for them to finally forgive each other and move on since they had both made mistakes. Was it possible that Brooke could have done it? Yes. It was before the first season and from what we can see from the first season Brooke had a side she wasn't proud of. She would get drunk and hooked up with a random guy she didn't remember (I think we found this out in the Boy Toy episode but I'm only 50% sure). Peyton had her walls to hide behind and Brooke used boys to get the attention she craved from her parents and to try and cure her loneliness. She tried to sleep with Jake when she was drunk, she was ready to sleep with the guy at the college party until she found out he was a HS student. Brooke did not make smart decisions when she was drunk. Now was it probable that she would? I don't think so. I don't think she would have behaved the way she did in season 1 if she had her previous actions on her conscience. Now the writers tried to fix that by having Brooke say that she thought it was a bad dream (probably not what she said exactly but that she had tried not to remember it). But still it doesn't quite fit since it was added 3 seasons later. It made Brooke into a hypocrite. Although in season 4 there was also her letting Rachel take the fall until the very end. I guess people can have changes in personality (from her season 2 and 3 personality) and there was probably the bitterness towards Peyton but still the writers should have made it fit better if that is where they wanted to go. In the end we have to accept whatever the writers write as canon, no matter how poorly they introduce things.

I won't get the end of season 3/beginning of season 4 stuff or I will be here all day but there is some important stuff there too.

I see the friendship between Brooke and Peyton and I feel that with all those years of friendship that neither of them would have done those things. I am a big believer of loyalty in a friendship and it is clear to me that they care about each other so much that I find it hard to believe either would have betrayed the other.

Your post brought up many valid points. As an LPer I never saw Brooke as the villain and I don't think it's right to see her as one even though I haven't always agreed with her actions (like LIAGH and some of season 4. I guess it is just a personality difference between us. Brooke tends to lash out whereas I tend to keep in. I hate making a scene or creating more drama.) but I always understood her actions. I can see why some people dislike Peyton but I don't really understand the extreme hatred. I guess that is why I usually try to stay out of the LP vs BL debate. It tends to to just create more animosity and hate for characters. Some people take it very personally since they usually identify with the character they defend. In the end I guess I want people to look deeper into the characters and past what they already believe. If in the end they come out with the same opinion that is fine.

I can't believe I am analyzing this show again. There in no way you could do this with season 6. The crapiness has taken over. You can't even read a good debate anymore.

Alright then- glad I have some people who see it my way! Thanks to all you guys who responded to my posts, you guys made some good (and funny at times!) comments!

To KikiMarie- thats why I was never really into the Breyton friendship until sometime in s2 as well and then after that I was like whatever, lol.

To Thefanof/Tirefears- Yeah, I mentioned when Peyton made a snippy comment to Brooke in LIAGH but I had forgotten what it was. Yes, she said, "are you trying to get me out of the way so you can embarass yourself in front of Lucas" which prompted Brooke to play games and say "funny, I didnt know you were in my way". Then she also said she had a 1-week hold (which Peyton did not take) which I mentioned as well.

Aless- I was commenting on everyone else when your thing came up, so I promise I will read it and respond back a little bit later. I just didnt want you to think I had forgotten you.

Aless-

Hey- thanks for writing back. I really liked what you had to say and appreciated how even though youre an LP fan and Im a BL fan you didnt lash out at me personally and can discuss this in a mature fashion..its sort of hard to find on these boards lol. I agree with you, this is also why I try to stay clear of the debates and put the disclaimer up on the top (though the debates havent really been going on lately, Im assuming its since L/P is leaving the show). I also agree about not really having anything to WB about in s6 as well- lol. Sorry for taking so long to WB to you, also. Anyway, I do agree with most of what you had to say so I will try to keep this as short as possible.

With the sex tape, I do sort of think Brooke couldve done it but it did seem very contrived with how they wrote it (in that season), so basically what you were saying. I can see if Brooke TOTALLY forgot about it because of her drunkeness and maybe Nathan didnt want to bring it up because he didnt want Peyton to know or whatever, but they made it seem like Brooke remembered and didnt say anything to Peyton (but then again I dont really know because I havent seen s4 in a long time and the SL was only for a few episodes). The Brooke I know wouldve told Peyton so I dont know on that. Its not that I dont like Peyton because I do and its not because I love Brooke but I honestly think what Peyton did was worse. With Peyton- she was sober, she went after him anyway when Brooke WAS with him, (not even just the hotel kiss but telling him her feelings, not telling Brooke right away what happened and instead having Brooke find it on the webcam, the lieing/sneaking around, plus the kiss or hanging out or whatever it was Brooke saw them doing on the webcam) (not to mention during the hotel room scene Lucas was the one to bring up Brookes name and Peyton looked disapointed it didnt continue). With Brooke, she was drunk, like you said had sex with anyone pretty much, and they were already broken up. Plus from what I can tell in those few episodes in s1 (and also from how its portrayed in "Lifetime Pilling Up") P/N didnt really have that much of a relationship anyway, they were just with eachother for sex and to say they have a BF/GF and were always fighting. Brucas had a really meaningful relationship where Brooke read the books Lucas liked to read and they talked alot about his family and her family plus all the things TireFears mentioned in the first comment. So Im not saying what Brooke did was right, not at all, Im just saying I dont think its quite as bad because of all the things I just mentioned and the fact that Brooke was going out with Lucas and Peyton and Nathan were broken up. N/B was just sex, plain and simple, where as L/P was a passionate kiss that couldve lead to sex had they not had their necklace/hair get tangled and what not. So, I dont know, if I was either girl I would still be extremely sad and angry at my best friend for doing what they did but I just think Brookes was a little bit better. So basically, I dont know, maybe Im just weird but if I had to chose who to be in these scenarios I would say Peyton then. I didnt really want it to turn into a "x is better than y" blog but since it sort of has, thats just my explination for it. If you still think Brookes at fault Im not trying to not say you should feel that way, Im just stating how I see it.

With LIAGH, I do believe Brooke was at fault there and actually as a Brooke fan its not really her finest hour and not really my favorite episode with her. The Brooke I love is the student council president/fighting for a union at Carls Crab Shack/standing up for what she believes in Brooke. Not the manipulative/always has to get her way Brooke. But, with that, I tried to explain how I felt about her in that episode but Im sure it got lost in the novel that I wrote of a blog lol. Basically, yes she did try to break up L/P and get N/P back together (and hurt N/H in the process) but she didnt was the point I was trying to make. L/P didnt get together in that episode not becaue of Brookes medelling but because Peyton thought it was going too fast or whatver the situation was. Brooke saw Lucas looking at Peyton and said something about how Peyton was getting back together with Nathan (again, not her finest hour) but Lucas didnt fall for that. He still almost had sex with her and even told Brooke there was someebody else. So yes, Brooke did TRY to break L/P apart but she didnt win. And honestly if N/P werent so breakup/makeup/breakup/makeup I could really blame Brooke but she probably, at first, was trying to help. I didnt see very many convos around that time where Peyton really talks about Nathan really but if my BFF went through so much of that with her BF and then said they had broken up, Id probably figure theyd get back together in no time as well. Going back to what you were saying about Brookes personality, I do agree that it was sort of all over the map. I have thought that before and about Peyton as well. I feel like Peytons and Brookes personality shouldve gone 1-3-2-4 . Its like they were tough/wont take crap from anyone during the odd years but yet sort of more vulnerable and I dont want to use the word sad but ya know during the even years. Its like they had Brooke grow up in s2 with everything that she was going through, and she was pretty mature during the Chase stuff, but yet throughout s3 (with the exception of 'All Tomorrows Parties') and the end of s4 she was more like she was in s1/3. I guess the point of the Rachel/calculus thing was to show how much she HAD grown up because she finally didnt let Rachel take the fall at the end (although wasnt Rachel pretty much gone by the time she found out and told the principal anyway?) which she probably wouldve done in s1. So I agree, certain things didnt fit in with certain seasons but whatever lol but I guess for the most part, overall they had grown up.

In short, what I am trying to say (and this is for everyone) is if Peyton said plain and simple "yes I like Lucas" and Brooke still went after him, I could totally blame her. But she could only go by a few glances shed give Lucas' way or whatever because Peyton really tried not to show it when Brooke was around and she wouldnt come out and say it. So if Brooke did anything to make it SUCESSFUL that L/P didnt get together then I wouldnt even be making this blog but I felt like she didnt. I feel like people are seeing Brooke do her thing in LIAGH but are forgetting about the almost sex scene and the times where Peyton asks Lucas if its cool that they are friends, etc. And Im not trying to be mean to these people, Im just trying to ask them why they dont see this in this blog.

Just a little note: please don't take the words in capslock as yelling, but instead as emphasis (like bold or italics - but since I don't see the option of bolding/italicizing in reply comments, I had to do something else to point out emphasis).



The problem is, Brooke DID know that Peyton was VERY into Lucas, whether she said so or not. Brooke's "I don't know who the he|| you like anymore" comment is something I feel was either A) a lie or B) spoken purely in a joking manner although Brooke knew otherwise, due to the following reasons...



Firstly, Peyton and Brooke were BEST friends. They had been best friends since they were nine. You don't become that close to someone and not be able to pick up a thing or two about them, like, for example, when they're lying to you about a crush they so obviously have. Despite Peyton not admitting that she was into Lucas, Brooke already KNEW that she was! The whole reason she continued to ask Peyton if she looked him over and over and over is because she already knew Peyton liked him, but when Peyton didn't say anything or "denied" it, she was basically admitting what Brooke already knew without actually voicing it, so Brooke felt the need to ask again because she knew her friend was lying.



Secondly, if the fact that they were best friends wasn't enough to show that she already knew Peyton better than to believe her lie/lie of omission about not liking Lucas, "Life In A Glass House" PROVES that Brooke knew Peyton still had feelings for Lucas, even before Peyton got angry at Brooke in the bedroom. In fact, the whole reason Peyton ended up in the bedroom with Nathan is because Brooke knew: from the very start, she went out of her way to try and get Peyton and Nathan back together. If Peyton got back together with Nathan, then Brooke was free to pursue Lucas, despite whether Lucas and Peyton had feelings for each other. So she went out of her way to lie to both Peyton and Nathan on multiple occasions in an attempt to get them back together. She outright told both of them that the other was interested rekindling their relationship. Then at the party, Brooke found Lucas and propositioned him. When he told her point blank that there was someone else, she knew immediately who, and instead told him that she was getting back together with Nathan, when she knew full well that Peyton was NOT getting back together and Peyton had no intention of doing such a thing. By the time Brooke entered the bedroom with where Neyton was at, Peyton had every right to be furious with Brooke: she'd been trying to get Peyton out of the way the whole time by underhandedly interfering with all three of their relationships. Post the Breyton bedroom confrontation, Brooke was obviously pissed and I gather this is for two reasons: A) because Peyton caught onto the game she was playing and B) because her suspicions (fears?) about Peyton liking Lucas were confirmed in that moment. So instead of honoring this discovery and allowing Leyton to pursue the relationship she knew they BOTH wanted, she instead went out of her way to SABOTAGE it!



This goes right back to what I was talking about earlier with Brooke's extensive knowledge of Peyton due to their long childhood friendship. They became friends due to Peyton's mother's death, after all. Brooke KNEW how fragile Peyton was because of her mother's death. She knew Peyton was terribly fragile when it came to letting people in and she knew it took time for Peyton to do so. In addition, Peyton had also just got out of an emotionally unhealthy and semi-abusive relationship. With that knowledge fresh at hand, combined with what she already knew of Peyton and the emotional walls she builds because of her past, it was no wonder that Peyton would have a hard time accepting that she liked Lucas, let alone letting him in, IMMEDIATELY after her breakup with Nathan no less. This was why Brooke knew EXACTLY how to hurt Peyton at the party in LIAGH while at the same time putting into motion a series of events that would destroy the budding Leyton relationship before it truly got off the ground (basically, creating a domino effect so that while she didn't knock over the "Leyton domino" herself, her actions directly resulted in its fall). I'd like to use an example to help me explain what I mean by this:



You and another person need to get to the same destination. However, you are aware of two things - 1) that the other person is more than likely going to beat you there, and 2) that the other person has a blood clotting condition. So when you're losing, you arrange for jagged glass to be thrown in the other person's path, forcing them to walk over it and badly slice their feet. The other person is then set back and forced to detour to the hospital, allowing you to get to the winning destination first.



This is what Brooke did to Peyton: Brooke was Peyton's best friend, she had known Peyton since they were nine-years-old and they had bonded because of Peyton's mother dying. Brooke KNEW how and why Peyton had her emotional walls built up the way she did. She was also fully aware of Peyton's recent and unhealthy relationship with Nathan, who continually let her down and did nothing to help her break down those emotional walls. Knowing this, Brooke also knew how hard it was for Peyton to let people in. (Hence the reason she knew Peyton was lying about liking Lucas. She knew Peyton wouldn't just out and out admit that, it wasn't in character given her past.) Additionally, Brooke also knew that by outing Peyton's feelings about Lucas in front of everyone that it would have a SHATTERING effect on Peyton emotionally. By revealing Peyton's feelings (who was already an intensely private person) to EVERYONE and forcing her to publically kiss Lucas, Brooke threw the glass under Peyton's bare feet while fully aware she had a blood clotting condition. So instead of Peyton being able to pursue her relationship with Lucas at the normal, natural pace she and Lucas had been going at, the "glass" caused her to "detour to the hospital." In this case, it happened to be a bedroom to have sex. Thus, Brooke's "dare game" ended up pushing Leyton's relationship to a place it was not ready to go by forcing Peyton to bottle up her feelings (wanting to have sex) and build up her emotional walls again (telling Lucas she didn't want a relationship when he told her he did). Brooke emotional sabotage resulted in Peyton pushing Lucas away (the detour) and eventually allowing Brooke to get to Destination Lucas "first," thus stealing Lucas right out from under Peyton.



Edited To Add:



I noticed your reply to Aless and I just wanted to quote this part because I think this is what I've been trying to get at: "Basically, yes she did try to break up L/P and get N/P back together (and hurt N/H in the process) but she didnt was the point I was trying to make. L/P didnt get together in that episode not becaue of Brookes medelling but because Peyton thought it was going too fast or whatver the situation was."



I don't agree with this assessment. She did win. Peyton went from slow, steady flirting that was gradually growing into "something more" which was a pace that worked for Peyton given her emotional past, to being thrown into emotional turmoil due directly to and because of Brooke, because of Brooke's intimate knowledge of Peyton's emotional status. In other words, had Brooke not meddled (especially outing Peyton's attraction for Lucas in front of everyone) Peyton would not have been shoved into the position of suddenly "moving too fast" because the Leyton relationship would've continued to progress at her own speed.

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Hey Camille- thanks for writing back! I went ahead and read what you wrote, it was very well written, and I do agree with a lot of what you said. I do now see your side of things. Since I don't really agree 100% with everything, I'm just going to comment on a few things that have happened on the show that you and I see differently. I'm not trying to change your mind but just in case my blog didn't go into enough detail outside of just that 1 episode then maybe this will help (you'll see what I mean). And like you said, the words in caps aren't yelling, it's just for emphasizing

I guess what the main problem is, is that there are different interpretations for the word "stealing" and what it means to the characters physically and emotionally. This is why I decided to come up with a couple of examples and maybe this will help. I understand what you are trying to say about ˜the domino effect" which I didnt really think about all that much before (I think its because Im not quite the Peyton fan you are so I just never really stopped to think about what she was going through, but it does make sense) and now I agree with but I also think its about what comes after. Let me put it to you this way because Im probably not making much sense and I dont know how to explain it without examples lol. I have had a few people comment somewhere on these boards that they believe Peyton was wrong in "stealing" Lucas away from Lindsay because of their kiss in Tric in s5 (that Haley, again, walked in on lol) (Im really bad at episode numbers/titles by the way but youll probably know what I mean in my examples). I dont think this is true because even though it was a crappy thing for BOTH of them to do (not just Peyton), it didnt make L/L end right then and there. If lets say after the kiss Leyton was back to sneaking around and basically being a couple while he was still with Lindsey and then Lindsey found out, I can blame Peyton (as well as Lucas) for what they did and agree with that statement. But Lindsey broke it off with Lucas not because she found out about them kissing (because I dont believe she ever did?) but because of the fact that she finally realized that Lucas will always be in love with Peyton and marriage would never work out between the 2 of them because of that. How can you be in love with someone who wrote an entire book about someone else, that they still have feelings for? So I dont think that kiss wouldve made much of a difference to Lindsay if she found out sometime around the same time it finally dawned on her about LPs past/the Comet (which of course for TV-land meant the day of the wedding lol). So, again, if lets just say L/P got back together shortly after, I can maybe say it was Peyton (and Lucas') fault. But I just dont see it that way. Lets look at another scenario: The s3 school shooting Leyton kiss. Im sure there are some people somewhere who say the same thing about Peyton there (though I dont THINK Ive really heard anyone come out and say it but I have no idea) but I dont really. Yes Brooke yelled at Lucas at the Naley wedding and they almost broke up afterwards but it wasnt just because of that. Brooke and Lucas tried to make it work until the beginning of s4 and finally Brooke realized its too hard with Lucas' feelings for Peyton that stemmed back since s1 (would they do the same thing again?), her insecurities about their relationship together ("I always felt inferior to you..what a joke" in s1) and like Brooke said "they go days without a meaningful conversation". So, again, do I really think it was a bad thing for Peyton to do? Yeah, pretty much. But I never thought that Peyton took him away because L/P werent sneaking around afterwards and they didnt start going out for a long time. Peyton was even hesitant to start anything up with Lucas because she knew of Brooke's feelings and all that stuff (sort of like in s1 but that line is a bit more blurry). So, basically, if Brucas broke up in the s3 finale maybe I can blame Peyton. But they tried to make it work for a few more episodes and just couldnt because of so much more than 1 kiss. The kiss was just the trigger but everything else was the bullet. So this is why I say that even though what Brooke did in LIAGH is not a good thing to do, I still dont see it as her taking Lucas away because they didnt get together for so long afterwards and LP couldve gotten together but didnt. And like I was trying to say before, Brooke did try to get Lucas that night but Brucas didnt start a major friendship/dating until that episode where Peyton was knocked out from the roofey so if lets say Lucas said "oh I guess Peyton is getting back together with Nathan..yeah lets go upstairs, Brooke" and then started dating right afterwards, I would blame Brooke. But it didnt happen that way. I dont really see the guestroom almost-sex scene as happening any differently than if Brooke wasnt even there at the party at all. Peyton got mad at LUCAS because he wanted too much from her that she didnt want to give ("I want everything with you") she never said anything like "Why couldnt you just leave it alone" *walks out of the room* "Damn Brooke" or anything like that. Even when she came over to Lucas' to tell him she had feelings for him too ("I want all the same things you do, I do, and I want them with you..and I was too scared to tell you then bla bla") she never mentioned Brooke's name. She didnt say like "if it wasnt for Brooke I wouldnt have kissed you and therefore we couldve gone at a slower pace that I wouldve liked". Then Lucas wouldve said something like "I understand, we can take it slow" and thatd be that. If that were to arise, then I wouldve blamed Brooke for making them go faster. But the way that I see it, is that it wouldve happened anyway. Lucas wanted Peyton since he was what..13? Something like that? Maybe even younger? And Peyton thought he was hot and wanted him too. So of course 2 teenagers that think the other one is hot, maybe had a few drinks (cant remember, but they had champagne didnt they?), are at party and just kissed, and making googley eyes at eachother all night will be thinking of sex first thing when they get together. As far as the pacing thing is concerned, its not like Peyton is like Brooke who uses sex like its nothing, but its not like shes like Haley either who waited until she was in love/married- her and Nathans relationship pretty much consisted all of sex. Therefore, I dont really see her almost having sex with him as something thats totally Brookes fault and something she would never do. I mean, we cant blame anyone but Haley herself for finally deciding to go through with it with Nathan in the s1 finale right? And she had never had sex before. So okay, Peyton wanted to go slower and I respect that but she still had from the next day until 4 episodes or so later to finally tell Lucas how she felt. She even came up to him and said she wanted to be just friends and Brucas wasnt even going out at the time. Instead, she waits until Brucas started going out to tell him anything, and even though she said she would like for him to be cool for them to be just friends and he says okay, she was mainly hanging out with Jake after that anyway. So how could we blame Brooke for not letting her take it slow with him during LIAGH when she wasnt going at a slow pace anyway after LIAGH? She was either with Jake, sneaking around with Lucas all the time and kissing him anyway, or almost having sex with him in a hotel room. This is why I can not blame Brooke for what Peyton decides to do. Was she responsible for the hotel room almost-sex as well ? That is why I go back to my original blog and say its a matter of timing. Im not trying to bash Peyton and hate on her for what she did to Brooke (nor am I condoning it) but I also dont really think Brooke was that much at fault either.

I also wanted to address the "Brooke knew Peytons feelings" issue as well. I honestly think Brooke mayve known a little but not quite the amount that Peyton did. Just like Peyton didnt really think Brucas was going to last long because Brooke "doesnt really "date"..if you know what I mean" from her to Haley. I was just watching 3x01 today and you know the part where she comes into Peytons room and they had the "door scene"? Well, she said something like "and you can have so and so and Nathan because who knows what the he11 is going on with him in married land" or "married limbo" or I dont know, something along those lines. Maybe its just Sophia's intonation but to me it sounded exactly like how she said "and I dont know who the he11 you like anymore" in the "love square + 1" comment so if she honestly didnt know what was going on with Naley, why would she know about Peyton? It just seems like if she was lying she wouldve had a different tone of voice (again, could be a Sophia thing) and I dont really see why she'd lie about Nathan on the door. She couldve put anyone on that board, there are tons of guys at THH. Also, yes, they had been friends for a long time and all that but I cant blame Brooke for not knowing because Peyton didnt exactly treat Lucas any differently than she would anyone else. She had the same tone/attitude when she was fighting with Nathan ("I mean it, were done, so get the hell out"), when she was fighting with Brooke (the whole speech she gave Brooke when Brooke forgot about Peytons mom's death) and when she was with Lucas (telling him to move from her car, yelling at him for looking at her sketches at the auto-shop, yelling at him for submitting sketches, etc). So if I were her, I probably wouldnt know either, especially since she barely looked at him, had a boyfriend, and wouldnt say so after asking a million times. Also, I dont know about you, but if I really thought that my BFF really liked my crush, I wouldnt even suggest a 1-week hold on him. I wouldnt want my BFF and my crush anywhere near each other if I thought there was any possible way they could like each other and have it work out. So when she suggested that one-week hold on Lucas and then afterwards he was Brookes (or however she worded it, I cant remember) and Peyton still didnt take it, I would just assume she didnt also, because if I did assume so Id be like "hey so I might ask Lucas out tomorrow..see you later" rather than "you have till Friday to ask him out, then I will" and not even give her the option. So if Peyton wanted to go after Lucas and I was Brooke Id be okay with it, but I wouldnt put ideas in Peytons head basically. Sort of like the example you were talking about w/ the glass and the hospital. If I was hemophiliac, I wouldnt be like "oh yeah by the way, theres some glass over there if you want to use it". I would just hurry along and hope that the other doesnt see it in the meantime. Do you see what I'm saying? Lol. Also, Nathan was her first boyfriend/real love and at the end of s2 we find out in a Neyton scene that they had been going out since at least freshman year. So Peyton probably didnt have a whole lot of experience with flirting heavily with other guys and going out with them because she wouldve been so young (at least 13-14 if not younger). We heard in 2x01 about how Peyton used to get CDs every Tuesday at the mall while Brooke looked for makeup and Brooke said something about doing it to impress guys and Peyton goes "Brooke- we were 9! and Brooke goes "so- whats your point?"and laughs. So we know Brooke was at least 9 when she started getting interested in boys and flirting, but not so much with Peyton. We have no idea whether Nathan was it- freshman year- and she kept her guard up before hand (Im going to assume so with her moms death and all) so Brooke probably really didnt have any idea or if she did and like you said she was just lying. Plus, if they went out for at least 2 years and he was Peyton first love, thats probably why also she was so keen on trying to get them back together. She probably figured it was just another spat and that theyd work it out eventually so she would just help. Brookes answer to any time she feels down about a guy is to get another one-we've seen this countless times. Shes also mentioned to Peyton after she was down about Jake leaving both times that she should do the same thing. So she probably figured that instead of just saying that Peyton should get another guy, she should go for it with Nathan again (she probably wouldve said the same thing about Jake but he was in another state so thatd be pretty hard to do). So Im really not trying to defend Brooke just because shes my favorite, but I just cant blame her for some of these things. I guess I can just see the other side, and if I couldnt, I would say so. I wouldnt blame Haley if she didnt know about Lucas' crush on Peyton except for the fact that it stemmed from so long he told her a million times. Peyton just started to like Lucas from the Pilot and we dont know as an audience how she treated other guys she liked (though I gotta say she was a little less hard to read with Jake, but she just seemed easier to read period from LIAGH onward). I dont know, I guess thats just what I gotta say on that lol.

Anyway, I feel like Im just repeating myself and I know how that can be annoying to read (lol) so I will go ahead and stop here. Sorry I wrote a novel on this but this will be my last thing to say so thats why its so long (though if you want to WB go for it, Im just saying I probably wont because I dont think I really have much more to say on the subject). I guess its just one of those things LP/BLers will always fight about because it depends which side youre on and what exactly "stealing someone away" means to you. I have seen icons around here somewhere that says somethin like "Peyton will steal your BF and may it sound like shes right" or something along those lines so its not just me who doesnt understand why Brookes the bad guy and those people probably wont understand how either I guess. Hopefully even if you dont agree with what Im saying it makes more sense about how I feel for the B/P situation because theres so much more to them than just that 1 episode ya know? =)

I skipped a bunch of what you wrote coz I don't want to get spoiled but I wanted to comment here anyway. I prefer Brucas over Leyton. That's all I have to say really.

Lol, thanks NJZ. MOST of it is about s1 which I know youve already passed, but there are some things about s4 and I think s3 too I think. Have you gotten to s3 yet? Its pretty awesome!