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Thursday, Apr 27, 2006

I just love translation differences.  For example, literally translated to English my blog title says: You Tell This.  It is the title of a song by an Israeli artist named Rami Kleinstein.  On long road trips, I bring various Andrew Lloyd Webber CDs as well as Billboard hits from ancient years such as 1984 plus whatever random CD I may have purchased or borrowed from the library that came out in the past 5-10 years.  My mother brings whatever Israeli CDs she's managed to come across one way or the other. 

The one CD I really like is Rami Kleinstein's "Tagid Et Zeh."  Today I researched the song online and was shocked to discover that the song is usually translated as "Say It."  I had been told that the title meant "Tell This."  "Tagid" is masculine for "you tell" while "tagidi" would be the feminine version.  When translated, the "you" is generally left out because, let's face it, it would sound pretty funny to translate everything beginning with "you (male)" or "you (female)."

Tagid = tell.  Zeh = this.  Hebrew does not have a word for "it."  Everything is either masculine or feminine.  "Mah zeh?" means "What is this?" not "What is it?"  Of course, the word "is" is added for translation purposes as there is no actual word for "is" in Hebrew.  "Is" is implied.  In contrast, the word "et" does not really have a translation.  It has a point and serves a function but the English language does not have a comparable word.  Long story short, "et" makes "tell this" sound a lot nicer in Hebrew.

This "Say It" business is baffling me.  "Say" is "amar" not "tagid." Saying something is similar to telling something, but there are differences.  When you say something, you are simply speaking outloud, relaying some sort of information. Telling something is more meaningful.  There's a reason we tell stories and don't say them.

For anyone interested in the lyrics of the song: http://www.hebrewsongs.com/song-tagidetzeh.htm .  It even has the lyrics translated into Spanish.  Any Spanish speakers out there?

I did not intend for this blog to be a translation information session.  Something someone said to me yesterday reminded me of this song's title, I researched the song just because, and then went on a rant about the way it way translated.  That will have to be a blog for another time.

Side note: I'm going to try to remember all of the weird, random questions that pop into my mind for no reason at all and post them here for you to answer.

Lady Ta'aluma's Random Related to Music Question: How many times in a row do you think the average person can listen to Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody without going insane?

Comments

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As part of a day camp that I was part of, I successfully listened to that particular song for about an hour each day for 5 days in a row.

I will leave it to you to draw your own conclusions from that.
Posted Apr 27, 2006 12:01 pm PT
Hebrew! Actually, when I read your blog title, I was like :-O. Not that we've never spoke about hebrew, just that you are bringing it one level higher...

About the song name (and as a Hebrew speaker...): Tagid and Tomar (past- Amar) are both translated to "say". One of the reasons, is that Tagid has no past form (Higid, a very broken Hebrew). "This", and "It", both mean "Ze". When translating this song name, you can either say "Say It", or "You Tell This". As we ignore the "Ata" in hebrew, you can ignore the "you". Literally, "say it" sounds better than "tell this". Right?
Rami is indeed a bit more 80's. We have now several Pop singers (females, and males), and I can honestly say that our music is much better than was 20 or so years ago...

It's nice to talk about hebrew with you...
Posted Apr 27, 2006 1:53 pm PT
2C: A consecutive hour or just five minutes here and there throughout the day? I could listen to any song I liked for over an hour a day here and there. I spent approximately 20 consecutive minutes listening to Past the Point of No Return from Phantom. I'll let you draw your own conclusions on that one.

afenla: I thought my title would grab the Hebrew speakers! I suppose I'm strange, but I actually like "Tell This" better than "Say It." This is probably due to the fact that "say it" reminds me of a scenario along the lines of: Person A is correct and Person B is wrong and Person A says, "Say I'm right! Say it! Say it!"

Yes, "zeh" would be the closest thing to it, but I guess I just think about the English difference between "What is this?" and "What is it?" And of course Hebrew has continued to become modernized. The Hebrew I learn from my grandmother is not necessarily the same Hebrew used everyday in Israel.
Posted Apr 27, 2006 2:43 pm PT
Yeah, translation are sometime interesting and seing the influence of a culture in an other one, like all the french word and expression in the english dictionary like: Qu'est-ce que c'est. I think language is a beautifull thing in earth and when I heard people saying : We should all speak the same language I always say no, I wish we never lose all those great language
Posted Apr 27, 2006 2:52 pm PT
Actually, not that much. You will still be able to handle a conversation, since most of the new words aren't even useful (let's not get into the Hebrew word for SMS... :S...)
But then again, I only started to internalize English when I started listening to english songs. This is how you learn language - by listening and talking.
Posted Apr 27, 2006 3:22 pm PT
Translations can be interesting, especially with similar words. I know that for Japanese speakers, some constant problems came up with look/see/watch and they had great difficulty knowing when to use which one.

I ~love~ Bohemian Rhapsody! I could listen to it all day and sing along every time! That, and Killer Queen! (smiley)
Posted Apr 27, 2006 3:28 pm PT
Ta'aluma, that's a little too much for me. I listen to Queen so much for a few years that I'm currently taking a break from it.

That's a lot of music to listen to over and over and over and ... well you get the idea.
Posted Apr 28, 2006 10:48 am PT
I love translation. I find it fascinating. It's great to have afenla's input as well. I am not familiar with Hebrew at all, so this is quite interesting. I was able to understand most of the Spanish translation. It's a little different than the English translation.

I'm not sure of the exact number of times a person could listen to Bohemian Rhapsody without going insane, but I think it's a pretty larget number.
Posted Apr 28, 2006 3:06 pm PT
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