Friday, Feb 3, 2006
Given the recent increase in submissions, seems like a good time to reiterate TV.com policy, what I understand to be Tv.com policy, and make sure it’s at the top of my blog so I can easily direct people there. 
Sorry if it's long, but there's a lot to cover...
Number One - look at other entries on shows by the same editor. The best way to get something accepted is to see what editors have accepted before. Me or any other editor, look at what we've done in the past.
Number Two – the following applies to what I edit. Other editors may have different standards. I don’t argue with them about their stuff or tell them what to do, they grant me the same courtesy. See Number One above to figure out how they edit their submissions.
If you submit in the wrong category, I will reject and explain in Comments what the right category is. If you want to avoid a “bad mark” on your submission history, either check previous entries as above, or PM me first. I’m around.
As always, don’t use br or p HTML code. Don’t double-space between lines, either. It might look good in preview, but it messes things up when it gets approved.
Put your submission in the Submission box, not the Comments box. Readers won’t see anything you put in Comments, so putting an explanation there is useless. If it’s a new entry, “New Allusion/Note/Trivia” is sufficient as a Comment. If it’s a deletion or edit, explain in Comments and be very specific as to what you’re doing.
Remember to click on “More Allusions/Notes/Trivia.” Single-space after punctuation.
Base your submissions on your own viewing experience, rather then taking it from another site. We’ve seen most of those sites too, so if the material isn’t already here, we probably had a reason not to put it on. And if they get something wrong, us reposting it just perpetuates the error.
In my experience, initially the more you submit at one time, the more likely you are to put something in the wrong category, and the less comprehensive my explanation will be about why it’s being rejected. Making 50 submissions won’t impress me so take your time, focus on one episode, wait to see what I accept and reject, then move on to the next episode. Most people who read this are probably already familiar with my editorial “style,” so once we have a working relationship then is the time to submit more. Unfortunately, it’s the people who aren’t reading this who need to see it the most.
If I rejected once, submitting the same thing again isn't going to help you.
Show and movie titles are in italics. Episode titles are in quotation marks.
On to the specifics…
1) Allusions - An allusion is an indirect or passing reference to an existing form of media, be it to another TV program, a movie, a piece of music, or a book. Allusions are prevalent in television shows, and some shows, like The Family Guy, make exclusive use of this kind of humor. When submitting allusions, always credit the original media being referenced with as much detail as possible.
An allusion must be a reference. It also should be specific. Either the character should be specific (“This is something like Kafka’s Metamorphosis”!), it should be clear from context (a S.F. character who is a fan of Star Trek referencing a Star Trek quotation even if they don’t say “It’s from Star Trek”), or should be a pretty clear in-joke by the writers.
If you're not sure if it's an allusion, it isn't.
Format an allusion with a quote on the first line (following TV.com standards for quotes). Then hit Return or Enter on your keyboard. Then provide the explanation.
Believe it or not, some stuff predates an association with a particular show. If a show quotes a book but that quote also appeared in another TV show, the allusion is to the book (the “original media”), not the other show.
Be complete, and provide a bit of background on the reference. If a character says, “Just like that peanut farmer of a President,” you quoting the line and simply saying “Referencing Jimmy Carter” is not informative. Toss in a little background. No more then one paragraph or about 50 of your own words. Don’t cut-n-paste from other sites.
A show referring to something in its own history and previous episodes is not an Allusion – that’s simply internal continuity.
If they explain the allusion on screen and make a direct reference, then it’s not an allusion. Thus if a character on-screen explains about Jack the Ripper, and the plot is about Jack the Ripper, you don’t have to submit an allusion about Jack the Ripper.
Word definitions aren’t allusions, so please don't provide a definition of a word a character uses, no matter how obscure.
Allusions should...allude to something. A character named "Venus" does share a name with a planet and a Roman goddess and a statue. But if the character has nothing specific to do with any of these, and "Venus" is just...well, their name, you don't need to submit an allusion explaining Venus. Just because someone or something in a show shares a name with something historical doesn't mean the writers are trying to reference the latter.
Promotional materials aren’t part of the episode and thus shouldn’t be submitted as Allusions.
The writers “borrowing” a plot from another show isn’t an Allusion. If it was a plot on one show, it was probably a plot on a dozen others. So it’s not specific, either. If a character notes a similarity of their on-screen adventures to another show or book or movie, then it would be acceptable.
Allusions as noted are to media - books, TV, movies. You can find a lot of historical non-fiction stuff in books and TV and newspapers, though, and even Family Guy references historical events. So cultural and historical stuff is generally acceptable.
2) Trivia - Trivia is any small detail or goof that might not be known to people who view an episode. Trivia is attached at the episode level, not the show level. It should be specific to what aired in the episode and not deal with off-camera events, which should be submitted in the "notes" form. A car license-plate number is trivia, and a producer walking off the set is a note.
I’m putting Trivia first before Notes because it’s easier. If it deals with what you see on-screen and deals with the “reality” of the episode, it’s Trivia. Trivia can be “cross-platform” if the show is part of a franchise. Thus Stargate SG-1 Trivia that ties into Stargate: Atlantis is acceptable. Stuff across the various Star Trek series, ditto.
Trivia is not for plot points. Plot points aren’t small details, and the people who view an episode typically know them.
If you submit Trivia and you talk about actors or writers or background music choices or directing techniques...then you’ve strayed into Notes. None of that is on-screen. “On-screen” to me means the story and the setting and the “reality” of the episode itself. Characters don’t hear the background music or notice the lighting techniques.
Trivia should be significant or at least of some interest. Yep, this is highly subjective – that’s why us editors get paid the big bucks.
Do not submit “first appearance of”-type material unless it’s of huge significance. Any episode of any series features a first or last or hundredth of something – again, this would result in dozens of such entries per episode.
Internal continuity in general is expected and again, there are so many examples in shows these days that listing everyone would take dozens of entries. However, if the continuity is obscure and “trivial,” it may be accepted.
Trivia isn’t for pet theories or what used to (vaguely) be called Analysis over at TVTome. These categories are for facts, not opinions. Discuss it on the forums.
As confirmed by missribs, Trivia submissions aren’t for back-and-forth discussion. If you disagree with an existing entry, Edit it or mark it for Deletion, and explain in Comments what you’re doing. Keep in mind that entries were scrutinized carefully before being accepted, so your odds of winning an “argument” are pretty slim. But it happens.
3) Notes - Notes are off-camera tidbits about an episode. They should contain off-camera events that deal with a show's production. They should not deal with on-camera events or trivia.
Premieres, finales, etc., are stated in the episode lists and don't need to be submitted. As yo might notice, I'm a big fan of avoiding redundancy.
If it’s not Trivia as above, then it’s probably production-related and we’re into Notes.
Plot points aren’t Notes, either. Plot points go in the Recap. If there’s not a Recap, write one!
In general do not submit “best known as” Notes for guest stars. Everybody is “best known” for something, somewhere – we could have one of these for every guest star in an episode. Folks can click on the cast links at the top of the page if they want this info. If there’s some kind of direct in-joke to an actor’s previous role, then it would be a Note, yes.
Do not submit “similar to something on another show” Notes. There have been tens of thousands of episodes of different series in TV history – I assure you if it’s been done once, it’s been a dozen times somewhere. And then we’d have to provide dozens of such entries per episode.
DVD commentary is fair game but please write in your own words rather then cut-n-paste. Ditto cut scenes and such.
-----
Hope that all helps.
Sorry if it's long, but there's a lot to cover...Number One - look at other entries on shows by the same editor. The best way to get something accepted is to see what editors have accepted before. Me or any other editor, look at what we've done in the past.
Number Two – the following applies to what I edit. Other editors may have different standards. I don’t argue with them about their stuff or tell them what to do, they grant me the same courtesy. See Number One above to figure out how they edit their submissions.
If you submit in the wrong category, I will reject and explain in Comments what the right category is. If you want to avoid a “bad mark” on your submission history, either check previous entries as above, or PM me first. I’m around.
As always, don’t use br or p HTML code. Don’t double-space between lines, either. It might look good in preview, but it messes things up when it gets approved.
Put your submission in the Submission box, not the Comments box. Readers won’t see anything you put in Comments, so putting an explanation there is useless. If it’s a new entry, “New Allusion/Note/Trivia” is sufficient as a Comment. If it’s a deletion or edit, explain in Comments and be very specific as to what you’re doing.
Remember to click on “More Allusions/Notes/Trivia.” Single-space after punctuation.
Base your submissions on your own viewing experience, rather then taking it from another site. We’ve seen most of those sites too, so if the material isn’t already here, we probably had a reason not to put it on. And if they get something wrong, us reposting it just perpetuates the error.
In my experience, initially the more you submit at one time, the more likely you are to put something in the wrong category, and the less comprehensive my explanation will be about why it’s being rejected. Making 50 submissions won’t impress me so take your time, focus on one episode, wait to see what I accept and reject, then move on to the next episode. Most people who read this are probably already familiar with my editorial “style,” so once we have a working relationship then is the time to submit more. Unfortunately, it’s the people who aren’t reading this who need to see it the most.
If I rejected once, submitting the same thing again isn't going to help you.
Show and movie titles are in italics. Episode titles are in quotation marks.
On to the specifics…
1) Allusions - An allusion is an indirect or passing reference to an existing form of media, be it to another TV program, a movie, a piece of music, or a book. Allusions are prevalent in television shows, and some shows, like The Family Guy, make exclusive use of this kind of humor. When submitting allusions, always credit the original media being referenced with as much detail as possible.
An allusion must be a reference. It also should be specific. Either the character should be specific (“This is something like Kafka’s Metamorphosis”!), it should be clear from context (a S.F. character who is a fan of Star Trek referencing a Star Trek quotation even if they don’t say “It’s from Star Trek”), or should be a pretty clear in-joke by the writers.
If you're not sure if it's an allusion, it isn't.
Format an allusion with a quote on the first line (following TV.com standards for quotes). Then hit Return or Enter on your keyboard. Then provide the explanation.
Believe it or not, some stuff predates an association with a particular show. If a show quotes a book but that quote also appeared in another TV show, the allusion is to the book (the “original media”), not the other show.
Be complete, and provide a bit of background on the reference. If a character says, “Just like that peanut farmer of a President,” you quoting the line and simply saying “Referencing Jimmy Carter” is not informative. Toss in a little background. No more then one paragraph or about 50 of your own words. Don’t cut-n-paste from other sites.
A show referring to something in its own history and previous episodes is not an Allusion – that’s simply internal continuity.
If they explain the allusion on screen and make a direct reference, then it’s not an allusion. Thus if a character on-screen explains about Jack the Ripper, and the plot is about Jack the Ripper, you don’t have to submit an allusion about Jack the Ripper.
Word definitions aren’t allusions, so please don't provide a definition of a word a character uses, no matter how obscure.
Allusions should...allude to something. A character named "Venus" does share a name with a planet and a Roman goddess and a statue. But if the character has nothing specific to do with any of these, and "Venus" is just...well, their name, you don't need to submit an allusion explaining Venus. Just because someone or something in a show shares a name with something historical doesn't mean the writers are trying to reference the latter.
Promotional materials aren’t part of the episode and thus shouldn’t be submitted as Allusions.
The writers “borrowing” a plot from another show isn’t an Allusion. If it was a plot on one show, it was probably a plot on a dozen others. So it’s not specific, either. If a character notes a similarity of their on-screen adventures to another show or book or movie, then it would be acceptable.
Allusions as noted are to media - books, TV, movies. You can find a lot of historical non-fiction stuff in books and TV and newspapers, though, and even Family Guy references historical events. So cultural and historical stuff is generally acceptable.
2) Trivia - Trivia is any small detail or goof that might not be known to people who view an episode. Trivia is attached at the episode level, not the show level. It should be specific to what aired in the episode and not deal with off-camera events, which should be submitted in the "notes" form. A car license-plate number is trivia, and a producer walking off the set is a note.
I’m putting Trivia first before Notes because it’s easier. If it deals with what you see on-screen and deals with the “reality” of the episode, it’s Trivia. Trivia can be “cross-platform” if the show is part of a franchise. Thus Stargate SG-1 Trivia that ties into Stargate: Atlantis is acceptable. Stuff across the various Star Trek series, ditto.
Trivia is not for plot points. Plot points aren’t small details, and the people who view an episode typically know them.
If you submit Trivia and you talk about actors or writers or background music choices or directing techniques...then you’ve strayed into Notes. None of that is on-screen. “On-screen” to me means the story and the setting and the “reality” of the episode itself. Characters don’t hear the background music or notice the lighting techniques.
Trivia should be significant or at least of some interest. Yep, this is highly subjective – that’s why us editors get paid the big bucks.
Do not submit “first appearance of”-type material unless it’s of huge significance. Any episode of any series features a first or last or hundredth of something – again, this would result in dozens of such entries per episode.
Internal continuity in general is expected and again, there are so many examples in shows these days that listing everyone would take dozens of entries. However, if the continuity is obscure and “trivial,” it may be accepted.
Trivia isn’t for pet theories or what used to (vaguely) be called Analysis over at TVTome. These categories are for facts, not opinions. Discuss it on the forums.
As confirmed by missribs, Trivia submissions aren’t for back-and-forth discussion. If you disagree with an existing entry, Edit it or mark it for Deletion, and explain in Comments what you’re doing. Keep in mind that entries were scrutinized carefully before being accepted, so your odds of winning an “argument” are pretty slim. But it happens.
3) Notes - Notes are off-camera tidbits about an episode. They should contain off-camera events that deal with a show's production. They should not deal with on-camera events or trivia.
Premieres, finales, etc., are stated in the episode lists and don't need to be submitted. As yo might notice, I'm a big fan of avoiding redundancy.
If it’s not Trivia as above, then it’s probably production-related and we’re into Notes.
Plot points aren’t Notes, either. Plot points go in the Recap. If there’s not a Recap, write one!
In general do not submit “best known as” Notes for guest stars. Everybody is “best known” for something, somewhere – we could have one of these for every guest star in an episode. Folks can click on the cast links at the top of the page if they want this info. If there’s some kind of direct in-joke to an actor’s previous role, then it would be a Note, yes.
Do not submit “similar to something on another show” Notes. There have been tens of thousands of episodes of different series in TV history – I assure you if it’s been done once, it’s been a dozen times somewhere. And then we’d have to provide dozens of such entries per episode.
DVD commentary is fair game but please write in your own words rather then cut-n-paste. Ditto cut scenes and such.
-----
Hope that all helps.
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Posted Feb 3, 2006 8:37 am PT
Thanks, this was very informative.
Posted Feb 3, 2006 9:08 am PT
yeah I really hate it when people submit "directed by ___", "first episode to feature this guy", "last visit to the..."
though what happened to goofs? about time it disappears from the episode guides if trivia is NOT for those things :/
though what happened to goofs? about time it disappears from the episode guides if trivia is NOT for those things :/
Posted Feb 3, 2006 9:10 am PT
Thanks for reposting this. Recently, I've become a TU for a guide that needs a larget number of corrections. Reading this again helped to clarify a few questions the current editor and I had about removing some things.
Posted Feb 3, 2006 9:31 am PT
Nothing "happened" to goofs. As per the TV.com definition of Trivia (see above), that's where Goofs go, and they relate to on-screen stuff. evenif it's a production error, because why is that microphone dangling from the ceiling, anyway?
I just didn't have much to say about them.
Jekyl: Yeah, I'll add that one in.
I just didn't have much to say about them.
Jekyl: Yeah, I'll add that one in.
Posted Feb 3, 2006 10:55 am PT
WOW! This is both the longest blog entry I've ever seen and the longest I've ever read. What's sad is that I didn't learn anything since I'm one of those "already familiar with [your] editorial “style,”" even if I haven't submitted in a while (come back JLU).
I've had trouble convincing people that goofs are pieces of trivia since trivia is on-screen and notes are off-screen. I'll have to bookmark this entry for the next time it comes up.
I've had trouble convincing people that goofs are pieces of trivia since trivia is on-screen and notes are off-screen. I'll have to bookmark this entry for the next time it comes up.
Posted Feb 3, 2006 7:19 pm PT
I just want to ask about the thing I submitted under the allusions of the Stargate episode of "Ethon," about the comment Daniel says about him not giving up even when he dies being a reference to when he ascended. Would that be accepted if it was under the trivia section? I just thought I'd ask so that, if it wouldn't be accepted, it would not be counted as denied.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Posted Feb 4, 2006 3:39 pm PT
thanks, it helps, I was confused about the deference between Allusions and Notes and Trivia...
Posted Feb 4, 2006 5:51 pm PT
Great entry Gislef. I agree with tons of it! I have a few contributors who used to like to add plot points to the Notes section on TV Tome and now they do it here, so I always re-direct them to the Trivia section as a compromise, but I don't like having that stuff listed either. Redundancy isn't fun.
Posted Feb 5, 2006 9:14 am PT
Hungry_Homer111: I wouldn't accept it, no. It's not really obscure or something the viewers or fans might not notice. The fact that Daniel died and came back is pretty well known. Like it says, "Trivia is any small detail or goof that might not be known to people who view an episode."
Posted Feb 6, 2006 10:44 am PT
Thanks for answering.
Posted Feb 6, 2006 12:30 pm PT
Just wanted some official advice of how any of this could apply to a factual music show. While editing 'Top of the Pops (UK)' I've basically decided upon a format which makes use of both Trivia and Notes in a tidy way, which doesn't really conform to the above because with a factual show, there isn't any other 'reality'. Generally speaking, if it's an on camera event, it's also an off-camera event too. All of the recent shows (since 2003) include what I call 'Onscreen Factoids'. Snipits of actual star Trivia appear in captions at the start or in the middle of each performance/video. As this is information that appears in the show I thought it was important to include it in each relevant episode guide. However, with no better place to put it, I've actually been putting in the Trivia leaving all other information directly relevant to the episode itself in the Notes (including goofs). I was wondering if this exception to the rule was an acceptable one in the eyes of TV.com and yourself or if you could suggest any better way of doing it.
Here's a link to a recent episode so you can see what I mean.
Thanks in advance for any advice you give Gislef
Here's a link to a recent episode so you can see what I mean.
Thanks in advance for any advice you give Gislef
Posted Feb 11, 2006 5:55 am PT
I don't deal in any reality-type shows. But if the Factoids are on-screen, I'd say that's Trivia. If it's info like, "Producer Fred J. Bloggs was ill during most of this" and they don't say that on-screen, I'd consider it Notes.
According to TV.com, Goofs always go in Trivia as they're always on-screen.
Hope that helps.
According to TV.com, Goofs always go in Trivia as they're always on-screen.
Hope that helps.
Posted Feb 12, 2006 3:11 pm PT
A bit, thanks Gislef!
Posted Feb 12, 2006 4:19 pm PT
Gislef, your expertise please.
When the title of an episode is similar to the title of a novel, should that be noted in Allusions or in an episode note? or elsewhere?
Thank you in advance.
When the title of an episode is similar to the title of a novel, should that be noted in Allusions or in an episode note? or elsewhere?
Thank you in advance.
Posted Feb 20, 2006 7:10 am PT
If a title alludes to something, then Allusions would seem the appropriate place to list it, yes. Although keep in mind these are how I handle things, and are not "official."
Posted Feb 21, 2006 5:11 am PT
that's cool gislef.
Posted Feb 24, 2006 1:01 am PT
Hey I just noticed that the Smallville director James Marshall is not the real James Marshall. The James Marshall listed for directing the Smallville episodes is the actor James Marshall. The real James Marshall who has done all the directing in Smallville (and other such as The O.C., Charmed and North Shore) is James Marshall (III).
Whoa! That is a lot of James Marshall in that text.
Whoa! That is a lot of James Marshall in that text.
Posted Mar 4, 2006 6:11 am PT
Thanks Gislef! You're the best, and you really helped me. Thank you thank you thank you.
Posted Mar 5, 2006 7:15 pm PT
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
Posted Mar 8, 2006 8:34 pm PT
Trivia is for people who haven't seen it but with Deal or No Deal posting the dollar amounts and case numbers would be seen by the people who watched the episode the only thing i can say is that SPOILERS would be needed
Posted Mar 26, 2006 7:34 pm PT
Trivia is for information that people might not notice when they do see the episode.
Posted Mar 27, 2006 6:45 pm PT
Thanks that helps.
Posted Mar 28, 2006 7:18 pm PT
Hey Gislef,
How about product placement parodies like Moonbucks or FONY or the upside down Golden Arches? Or hmm maybe I should just look at the SNL and Simpsons guides.
How about product placement parodies like Moonbucks or FONY or the upside down Golden Arches? Or hmm maybe I should just look at the SNL and Simpsons guides.
Posted May 26, 2006 8:57 am PT
Hello,
I just set up an account and have a question. I am 51 years old and there are a few of us out here who remember a TV show called "The Great Adventure". It aired in 1963 on CBS and lasted 1 full season. It took an episode in history, mostly US history and did a show about it. This was a wonderful show, there are many of us out here who can still remember the theme after all these years. I want my kids to see the series. I do not know how to find these old shows or who now owns them, but I would like to find out who does. This would be a great thing to have on DVD. You are an expert in this field. Do you have any suggestions on where I would start? Any help or advice you could give would be appreciated. Several of us have been trying, but have gotten nowhere. Robert Brown.
I just set up an account and have a question. I am 51 years old and there are a few of us out here who remember a TV show called "The Great Adventure". It aired in 1963 on CBS and lasted 1 full season. It took an episode in history, mostly US history and did a show about it. This was a wonderful show, there are many of us out here who can still remember the theme after all these years. I want my kids to see the series. I do not know how to find these old shows or who now owns them, but I would like to find out who does. This would be a great thing to have on DVD. You are an expert in this field. Do you have any suggestions on where I would start? Any help or advice you could give would be appreciated. Several of us have been trying, but have gotten nowhere. Robert Brown.
Posted May 27, 2006 6:34 am PT
Wouldn't product placement parodies be Allusions?
I don't really deal a whole lot with studios, so your best bet would be to contact CBS directly or, alternately, the studio that produced the series and see if they have any news.
I don't really deal a whole lot with studios, so your best bet would be to contact CBS directly or, alternately, the studio that produced the series and see if they have any news.
Posted May 28, 2006 10:06 pm PT
Thanks a lot, Gislef! I'm not new to Tv.com, but I'm new at submitting entries. This post's been really helpful.
Posted Jun 12, 2008 5:13 pm PT
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